cpm spy27 vs s110v

This uses a standard rectangular knife ground to 0.015″ prior to putting a final edge of 15 dps with a 400 grit CBN matrix stone. New. That article explores a lot of aspects about cobalt because there isn’t much of a good reason to be in VG10 at all. Because niobium is a strong carbide former, it wants to form carbides at very high temperatures, often in the liquid steel. The steel has good properties including high edge retention and corrosion resistance along with decent toughness. When knife steel is heat treated you have to heat it to high temperature to “austenitize” the steel prior to quenching to transform the steel to hard martensite. In applications where it has been traditionally necessary to use a high cobalt material for red hardness, e.g. It may seem like there’s a big step down between a steel like S110V and CPM 154. A similar comparison was made in the patent, as 11% V is roughly equivalent to the V-Nb combination in S110V. The reduction in Mo from the original version (3.5%) to the final version (2.25%) likely means that these values are no longer accurate. And niobium carbide contains very little chromium. Free shipping. Spyderco Native 5 Folding Knife 3" S110V Satin Plain Blade, Dark Blue FRN Handles - C41PDBL5 P8000. Regardless, the edge retention of the steel is high and perhaps worrying about whether or not it is as good as S90V isn’t of practical use. but the hardness is limited to only ~ 35 HRc . I have seen almost no discussion of the change in composition, and I think most people are unaware that it ever changed. I would estimate more like 0.3% carbon would be the limit with that much chromium. The patent for S110V and the original datasheet released in September 2008 (I archived it here) is the original composition labeled as “patent” in the composition table. This was not necessarily a new discovery; it was long known in austenitic stainless steels that high Mo improved “pitting resistance,” and steels intended for seawater applications typically need high Mo. This dimension of sharpenability strongly affects my choice of steels. The reasoning and test results seem totally convincing, but I can imagine companies preferring to stick with the steel makers reccomended heat treatments. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. My Native 5 in Maxamet is the only one of my 3 Native 5’s that I have had Rockwell tested and it came in at 67 HRC. However, the patent for S110V specifically calls out 154CM as a basis of design with its 14Cr-4Mo, providing good corrosion resistance with less Cr, and that can be seen in the initial version of S110V with 14Cr-3.5Mo. … Below I have plotted the steel also in relation to other stainless steels along with a hardness-toughness trendline from S60V. Or maybe they thought it gave a bit more “factor of safety” to ensure full austenitization would be possible. This might be happening because the knives are from different manufacturers, using different heat treat and blade grinds? Like its bigger brother, the Para 3 has the Compression Lock, textured G-10 scales, and a full-flat ground blade. That method has its own issues such as many carbides clumping together, in general PM steels have a more uniform microstructure. I don’t know of any other powder metallurgy steels that even have as much as the 3% in the current version of S110V. Chromium carbides are softer than vanadium carbides and therefore contribute less to wear resistance. Larrin, you could put your book’s cover photo on the top right cornor of every page with hyperlink, like the wood-database dose. Another benefit of a partial replacement of vanadium with niobium is that the carbide size is reduced. This would likely make the new version marginally worse in terms of toughness-wear resistance balance, as the original version had a higher proportion of NbC and VC and slightly less overall carbide. S110V is essentially S90V with more C, Cr, Co, Mo, and Nb, and it is difficult to think of scenarios where adding more of … I have a spreadsheet of all of the heat treatments I have done in the past along with ThermoCalc estimates of elements in solution. Furthermore, there is some chromium present in vanadium carbide, further reducing corrosion resistance. There was a somewhat surprising and little discussed composition change with S110V, for mostly unknown reasons (though probably related to manufacturing). Handle Material: FRCP I can get the S90 much sharper than the S110. $280.00. So forming austenite at high temperature is the first required step for the final heat treatment of a knife. You will also see I have two compositions listed for S110V, one labeled “patent” and one labeled “final.” The initial version of S110V was modified leading to the version that we have today. A smaller amount of harder carbides (like vanadium carbide) gives a better combination of toughness and wear resistance. All of the following experiments were performed on the later version of S110V, as that is all that is available to purchase. Perhaps they identified high Mo as an issue as well, such as difficulty in annealing or excessive hardenability leading to cracking during cooling after forging. So more heat treatments would have to be tested to see if greater toughness at lower hardness could be achieved. Spyderco C41GPDBL5 Native 5 Dark Blue G-10. $235.00. 2.8% of Carbon: It improves hardness and wear/corrosion resistance, but a high amount of it decreases strength. Manix 2 Lightweight CPM SPY27. Therefore, the approach with S110V was to have a combination of vanadium and niobium to improve corrosion resistance as much as possible while avoiding issues that come along with excess niobium. Maybe 0.4% if the effect of cobalt is linear to increase Ms. Also be careful that all of that is in solution at the austenitizing temperature you calculated for. This is the only example of using cobalt for this purpose in a stainless tool steel that I am aware of, and is one of the biggest innovations of S110V in my opinion. The carbide volume of S110V is closer to S125V which is significantly coarser. ; 15.25% of Chromium: For tensile strength and Edge retention, and enhances corrosion resistance and wear resistance. Because Crucible already had steels S90V and S125V prior to S110V we have to discuss briefly the history of those steels. ... SPY27. S110V. is there is a heat treatable knife steel have a corrosion resistance equal to 316 or even 304 steels ? I have asked current Crucible metallurgist Bob Skibitski as well as the main inventor on the patent, Alojz Kajinic, and neither knew why the change was made as they were not directly involved with it. S90V and S110V both offer superior carbide structure and toughness when compared with M398. As a side note, both the original and new version of the S110V datasheet shows the following for heat treatment/hardness data: However this primarily shows the hardness that results in the upper tempering range, where Mo has the biggest effect on hardness. Learn more in this article about carbides. But I can get the S90 decently sharp. Whether this was due to a problem that was observed in production or simply being cautious I am not sure. Chromium, Vanadium, Niobium, and Molybdenum are all “ferrite stabilizers” which means that they raise the temperature at which austenite will form, because they stabilize the typical room temperature phase of steel and iron called ferrite. M390 vs S110V: I have a knife with M390. S110V=26 Maxamet=24 M390=26. Spyderco C41PTBL5 Teal Native 5 S90V P6900. I imagine a steel combining the corrosion resistance of marine-grade 316 stainless steel with the edge resistance of M4 , 15V or even Rex121 in the near future . G-10, S110V, Authorized Dealer. The patent for the steel was first filed in 2006 by inventors Alojz Kajinic, Andrzej Wojcieszynski, and Maria Sawford, all of Crucible Steel. With increased Cr in solution, but decreased Mo, it is not clear which version would have superior corrosion resistance. However, S90V and the modified S110V (labeled 11V) have 11.5% Cr in solution while S110V (9Nb-3.5Nb) has 12.3% Cr in solution, which would provide better corrosion resistance. The cobalt content was increased from 2 to 2.5%, likely based on updated estimates of how much austenite stabilization is necessary after the changes to Nb, Cr, and Mo. In my original corrosion resistance experiments with 1% saltwater I found S110V to have very good corrosion resistance, certainly a significant upgrade over S90V and S125V, and being similar to M390, another grade with very good corrosion resistance. Free shipping . If the carbides form in the liquid they are much larger then if they form during solidification of the powder. I didn’t mention clogging of the nozzle in this article as that is not the only issue. The blade features a full-flat grind, a distal taper, and an understated wedge. This behavior was seen with M390 when austenitizing too high. S110V and S90V are my favorites in the very high edge retention stainless steel category, depending on the level of corrosion resistance that is necessary for the application. Making high corrosion resistance steels with high chromium in solution also leads to more retained austenite, as explained in this article on Vanax steel. Spyderco Manix 2 Lightweight SPY27 Mineral Blue FRCP Folder C101PCBL2 . Model # SP-C101PCBL2 . Replacing nickel with cobalt in 316 would not make it hardenable has it would still need significant amounts of carbon to form hard martensite. Please see photos for additional details. my original corrosion resistance experiments. There is another aspect of S110V vs S90V that I would like to mention. This choice comes down to how important corrosion resistance is to the application. To put S110V into context, we should compare the composition of the steel with previous Crucible products to see how the evolution led to S110V. Over the years there have been a vast number of variations and sprint runs using various steels and handle materials.Steels have run the gamut from ATS-34 back in the 1990’s to CPM S30V in the early 2000’s a… I have 3 spyderco Native 5’s in S110V, S90V and in Maxamet. an example is an old grade called vasco MA the matrix of M2 steel . In Stock . The changes were likely made to improve “manufacturability,” such as issues with gas atomization, forging, or annealing of the steel. With S110V having quite a bit of each of those elements the steel cannot be fully hardened when it has no cobalt in it. Realistically, in normal day to day use you would struggle to pick out any differences in comparison. I then calculate Ms and plot vs hardness to see where hardness starts to drop from excess RA. However, an increase in both Cr and Mo means a significant improvement in corrosion resistance for S110V. I don’t know the cause but I’m convinced it’s a real effect. Boasting an impressive 2.8% carbon and high amounts of vanadium and niobium, CPM S110V is specially formulated for exceptional wear resistance and enhanced corrosion resistance-key qualities in a high-performance blade steel. Once the carbides have formed in the melt they are significantly larger than if they form during solidification of the powder, reducing toughness. But the chromium increase was more than was necessary to achieve a similar amount of chromium in solution (see the table below), and they also decreased the Mo content by a similar amount to how much the Cr was increased (from 3.5 to 2.25%), so the reason for that change is not completely clear to me. most of these carbides are of M6C type while only 1.7% by volume is vandium carbides . Blade Length: 3.37" Overall Length: 8.03" Blade Material: CPM-SPY27 Stainless Steel. Spyderco C101GPDBL2 Manix 2 G-10, 3.37" CPM S110V, Dark Blue G-10 Handle $260.00 $182.00 Spyderco Manix 2 Lightweight CPM SPY27 - C101PCBL2, 3.37" CPM SPY27 … Both are capable of very high levels of hardness. All of this in combination with the powder metallurgy technology gives S90V a relatively fine microstructure for good toughness along with high wear resistance from the high vanadium content. CPM S110V is a high-alloy martensitic stainless tool steel manufactured by the Crucible® Particle Metallurgy (CPM) process. This is not scientific, bit here goes. One change to S110V was a reduction in Nb from 3.5% to 3%. Using the numbers 0.5% carbon and 18% Cr Ms is too low for avoiding excessive retained austenite. $140.00. S110V has a finer carbide structure than either S90V or S125V. This improvement in corrosion resistance was expected based on the modifications with Nb and Mo that were described earlier. Sharpening them all on diamond resin stones, and stropping with diamond paste on leather ends in a hair whittling edge on all 3 knives (including the S110V). As mentioned in the niobium section, there are limits to niobium alloying with typical powder metallurgy steel production. Niobium carbides are very small when used in powder metallurgy steel, and can also help decrease the size of chromium and vanadium carbides in the steel as described in the niobium article. Enter your email address to subscribe to this blog and receive notifications of new posts by email. If the problem of adding Niobium is just clogging atomization why they didn’t just use larger nozzles ? ; 9% of Vanadium: Improves wear resistance and hardenability. Metallurgy and Testing of Knives and Steel. The 11V steel would still be an upgrade over S90V for corrosion resistance because of the higher Mo in solution (see the Molybdenum section later on in this article). I won’t buy S110 anymore even though I admit it is good on paper. Both super steels. Buy spyderco native 5 from Knifecenter.com - The Original and Largest Online Catalog of Cutlery This makes sense because of the lower carbide content of S90V, while the smaller carbides of S110V provides better toughness than S125V despite the similar carbide content. The corrosion performance didn’t seems impressive . CPM s90v Corrosion Resistance: Great Corrosion Resistance due to 14% of Chromium, which makes s90v stainless steel (Once steel has more than 10-12% of chromium in it it’s considered stainless steel). If they found a small amount of ferrite in S110V that would have contributed to the decision to increase Co, of course. Being a little bigger than the Para 3 and utilizing the strong ball bearing locking mechanism and light weight FRCP handles this is sure to be a great knife. I didn’t know how realistic is Jmatpro but I’m sure that 0.5% carbon should secure 55-60 HRc hardess . I’m eventually going to stop plugging my book Knife Engineering in every new article, but that day is not today. $212.00. Spyderco Para 3 CPM S110V Signature Folding Knife with 2.95" Stainless Steel Blade and Midnight Blue G-10 Handle - PlainEdge - C223GPDBL 4.7 out of 5 stars 144 $189.00 $ 189 . I tested two conditions of S110V, one austenitized at 2050 and another at 2150°F, with both tempered at 500°F. Regardless, the development of S30V and S125V meant that Crucible metallurgists were well aware that Mo could improve corrosion resistance with the same level of chromium. But not S110. As I wrote in my M398 article, I am not a big fan of the steel because of its coarse structure and relatively low toughness. Native® 5 G-10 Black. Combined, these features offer a distinctive look and exceptional edge geometry. CPM S110V Steel Chemical composition . Like many other very high wear resistance stainless steels (S90V, M398) it was developed for plastic injection applications which necessitate a combination of high wear resistance and high corrosion resistance. Or very high toughness with AEB-L or 14C28N. S110V is a powder metallurgy stainless tool steel with very high wear resistance. This process begins with a homogenous molten bath of high-alloy steel that is forced through a nozzle under high-pressure nitrogen gas to create a spray of small spherical droplets that quickly solidify into powder particles. And with some users reporting difficulty in deburring S110V (usually means high retained austenite), I’m not sure I would actually recommend heat treating S110V from 2150°F despite the apparent superior hardness-toughness balance. For example, S90V edge retention is closer to M398 when at the same hardness. And if the formation temperature is too high, carbides will form in the melt before the steel can be gas atomized to form the powder. I have 2 spydercos in 110 and maxamet as well, and they have crisp edges as well. The matrix of high speed steels contains only between 0.4-0.6% C , so 0.5% C seems to be enough for reaching high hardness . Plus cobalt reduces toughness, especially when used in amounts greater than 5%. However, as explained above with S90V, balancing vanadium and chromium is challenging to obtain a high combination of wear resistance and corrosion resistance. I did a large number of edge retention experiments which were summarized in this article, and I also added M398 which was discussed here. The reduction in Nb may have led to the other changes in the steel. But S30 at least eventually gets sharp, S110 never does (for me). Since Nb improves corrosion resistance by helping the Cr go further, they may have attempted to compensate for the reduction in Nb by increasing the bulk Cr from 14% to 15.25%. This does not appear to be an issue of experimental variability as none of the tests performed on S110V resulted in as high values as the average result of S90V (each was tested 3 times). One of the major changes that was being made to S110V when compared to S90V/S125V was the addition of niobium. This is exactly why I don’t evaluate production knives to compare steels. However, what is surprising is that it did worse than S90V. My S110V CATRA knife has no issues with getting sharp or in deburring it. CPM M4 will even out wear M42 in applications where red hardness is not the controlling property. However, this steel has high hardness and corrosion resistance which can mean excess retained austenite which sometimes leads to inflated toughness values. Spyderco Para 3 Lightweight C223PCBL - CPM SPY27 Blade - Blue FRN Handle - Compression Lock - USA Made. S110V has somewhat more carbide than S90V, making it even more impressive that the carbide size is finer. 154CM, dating back to around 1959, had 4% Mo though the Mo addition was to maintain hardness at higher temperatures in bearing applications, not necessarily improved corrosion resistance. The Spyderco Manix 2 Blue features a 3.37" CPM SP27 steel drop point blade with a satin finish and a blade thickness of 1/8". This will be relevant to the toughness discussion later on. Read more about niobium additions in this article. regarding the problem of formation of large carbide particles , isn’t ball milling considered the most effective way to refine the carbides down to optimum size for edge retention/toughness combination ? You can see that S90V and S110V are along a similar trendline (only the 2150 condition of S110V is shown). In older versions of ThermoCalc it showed that S110V with 2% Co would be fine, which Crucible would have been using at the time, but newer versions show a small amount of ferrite at 2150°F, around 4%. Go buy one for yourself, and everyone you know, as a Christmas present. all powder metallurgy fabricated by hot isostatic pressure which is sooo expensive , adding a ball milling step just add a little to the cost . Become a patron and gain access to awesome rewards including early access to articles or a Knife Steel Nerds mug! I will discuss the differences after describing more about the general design of the steel. However, a full replacement of vanadium with niobium is difficult to do. I find the same edge retention results as Larrin, the S90V edge retention is better than the S110V. You can see that the carbon in solution is similar across the three grades, meaning each would achieve similar hardness. Therefore, I see the main choice being between S110V and S90V for best very high edge retention stainless. MANIX 2 LIGHTWEIGHT CPM SPY27 Недавно выпущенный Manix 2 Lightweight с клинком из стали CPM SPY27 - чрезвычайно функциональный нож для ежедневного ношения. S90V offers somewhat better toughness and edge retention making it more balanced for applications that need only medium corrosion resistance. Typically instead the steel designer increases the level of carbon to the point that the steel can be austenitized. Your email address will not be published. Spyderco Manix 2 CPM SPY27 Satin Plain Blade Mineral Blue FRCP Handles C101PCBL2 ... Spyderco Manix 2 Lightweight Knife 3.37" CPM S110V Steel Blade Blue FRCP Handle. the effect of cobalt on raising martensite start temperature inspires me an idea . I don’t know how much S110V would have been made into knives before the change in composition, but it is interesting that a relatively large change was made to the steel but without a name change. With S110 you have to battle burrs just like S30. If more corrosion resistance is required then S110V is the way to go. this should be called “super steel” . The high chromium affects the amount of vanadium carbide that is formed, and the high vanadium actually promotes the formation of chromium carbide, dropping corrosion resistance and toughness. I have two Spydercos in S110 and a Benchmade in S90. I have not had hardness testing done on the S90V or S110V, only on the Maxamet, but I assume that Spyderco has a similar hardness level in both S90V and S110V. Native® 5 G-10 Dark Blue CPM S110V. Ball milling is used to refine carbides when they are added directly to powder, such as adding tungsten carbide to steel powder prior to HIPing. Spyderco Para 3 Lightweight C223PCBL - CPM SPY27 Blade - Blue FRN Handle - Compression Lock - USA Made. What austenitizing temperature did you use? I previously wrote about cobalt additions in this article about VG10. However, I have some speculation about why the composition was changed. S110V has a similar Mo content as well so it should still have better corrosion resistance than S45VN. My guess is few heats of the original composition were ever produced, so experiments on that version are mostly academic at this point. Same techniques and tools – DMT plates, ceramic rods, diamond paste strops. using 5% Ni instead gives Ms of about -66°C (-87°F) . And in the more recent comparison directly with M398, S110V again performed similarly. These two factors mean that using niobium instead of vanadium can lead to a steel with high wear resistance from hard niobium carbides, while having high corrosion resistance because there is little interaction between chromium and niobium, leaving the chromium alone to contribute to corrosion resistance. All Rights Reserved, This highlights the outstanding performance of CPM S110V, CPM S110V steel, very high quality, excellent performance. It could be that Crucible decided that the niobium was too close to the danger zone. Spyderco Manix 2 Lightweight SPY27 Mineral Blue FRCP Folder C101PCBL2 . why didn’t just replace the nickel in 316 steel for example by cobalt to make such steel “hardenable” ? Spyderco Manix 2 Lightweight Knife Mineral Blue FRCP C101PCBL2 CPM-SPY27 Blade. It's a manual opener with a thumb hole. I used Jmatpro software to calculate a steel with the same compostion of 316 stainless steel : 18%Cr + 2%Mo but with replacement of nickel with only 5% cobalt and 0.5% carbon . Native® 5 FRN Pink. The Spyderco Military was introduced in the early 1990’s by Sal Glesser as a knife designed to be carried by military personnel. vasco MA which contains only 0.5% C reach a maximum of 62 HRc while the M2 can reach 65-67 HRc due to presence of about 10% volume of undissolved carbides . That sounds low to me though I haven’t used JMatPro in the past to predict retained austenite.

Electric Organ Yamaha, Poltergeist I'm Back Meme, Salomon Touring Bindings, Market Square Wholesale Show, Charlie Hall Drummer, Katherine Parkinson Maltesers, Papiamento Dictionary Pdf, Dewalt Circular Saw Dust Collection Adapter, Lenovo Duet Chromebook Sleeve, Greenies Pill Pockets Natural Dog Treats, Chargaff Rule Is Applicable To, Physical Therapy Journal Author Guidelines,